My windows are now.... very, very hot!

July 1, 2005

Well written post Rama...

For a minute there I thought someone had put one of my old long winded posts in this thread. :dunno

Now for another perspective and possible informative post...

George,

Windows do break, seals do leak... the higher the quality the window the less likely of this occurring. Keep in mind the industry averages include the best to the worst... an Anderson, Pella, Peachtree all the way down to the no name scheister around the corner slapping together windows. Warrantied don?t always reflect the quality of the make. Could simply be marketing going against the suggestions of engineers.

Window films fall into this same ideal. Though they may carry a wonderful warranty... the facts may play out differently. Does the film maker pay their warranties or do they dump the load on the installing firm and or leave them and the homeowner hanging. I have not heard of window film companies that carry Lifetime warranty on glass and seal failure. If there is one, it is a buy up option much the same as buying added insurance. No film company wants to be held accountable for the window makers mistakes, but a little is better than nothing at all.

Also, read the warranty carefully... most have limits on what will get paid in the event glass or seal failure occurs, the most widely known number is $500 maximum per window. Do not get fooled into believing that it will be seamless service when that 6 foot by 8 foot, dual pane Andersen window pops a crack that the replacement is covered in full by window film warranties. Even the best warranty out there has limitations that will draw funds from the homeowners pocket.

Seal and glass failure is much less than one would have you believe provided the professional hired to install film knows much about glass, film and their performances together under the sun. It?s important to use films deemed safe for dual pane, monolithic, lowE or laminated and this is determined best by their solar absorption rate and to a degree their solar reflectance. The proper use of film results in zero to blame on the film and more to do with the glass or seal quality to begin with.

Reflective films that look ?cheap? are the old mirror film that still serve a useful purpose in commercial settings seeking dramatic reductions in energy consumption. They generally do not get used in residential settings today so are not even a basis for comparison as some might have you believe. There are many films today that can fill the bill as far as your wants or needs. Do keep in mind that a film that carries a higher solar reflectance value is going to be very efficient by bouncing the solar energy off the glass surface, minimizing what gets absorbed into the glass... and inside the dwelling.

This absorbed amount must dissipate from the glass and does so by re-radiating portions to the interior of the dwelling and portions to exterior. No breeze outside... minimized performance. Many films using a metal deposition generally have higher reflectance values versus absorption... Today?s popular film constructions are metal based and/or dual reflective in nature.... dual reflective = inside surface has low interior reflectance values compared with higher reflective value facing the exterior. This gives the homeowner the use of their windows after dark and higher solar reflectance values for more efficient film performance.

Other types emerging are those that use infrared absorbing materials as their deposition and carry lower solar reflectance values and higher absorption values. The lighter density selction generally look neutral on the glass and the heavier density have a more metal reflective look. In fact I have a sample of a 30% infrared absorbing film on my desk the looks as though it were a metal based film and the reflectance seems equal on both sides.

Take a look at your glass one dark night while the living room lights are on and you?ll see more a reflection off the untinted glass than many think. You literally must make a concerted effort to see out the glass even with no film installed. Low interior reflective films add little to this. Be careful not to sacrifice what is important and choose the film wisely. If you truly use the windows for viewing out after dark, then low interior reflectance type films will suit you. If the night vision out the windows is not important, then having a mildly reflective window glass isn't much of an issue and can... from an exterior view point... be aesthetically appealing as well. Semi reflective look from the street can add day time privacy and for those concerned over not seeing what made that noise in the yard after dark... the first instinctive move is to shut off the lights to see out better (film or no film) and to hide from whatever it may or may not be.

There are films that perform in the 50-60% range and have similar or higher visible light transmissions to them. These are the latest in spectrally selective film products. They do very little for the sun?s glare, but are great at reducing other areas of the solar spectrum. Get yourself a film the fits all of what most consumers look for... some glare control, UV rejection... effective total solar energy rejection and fade reduction. Keep in mind that fade occurs from ultraviolet, heat and visible light. Maximize the performance numbers in those three areas and you?ll maximize your fade reduction. There are other factors contributing to fade, but they are minor in comparison to the big three. Don't get caught up in those sales pitches that focus mostly on one portion of the solar spectrum... it all counts when looking to obtain the best solar protection possible.

As to your DIY adventure and me giving you props... it still stands. I use to encourage any client talking of doing it themselves to try a window or two and if it were not something they were happy with, they could then call me and I?d give ?em an education (like what Rama speaks of) and a professional install. Today I mostly am on the technical side rather than the installation side of the industry.

Last word... the quality of window film products has improved vastly since I came to the industry in 1980... the backbone of any film product is not the color, the deposition used or its performance... it?s what steps have been taken to protect the polyester, the quality of the polyester used and the adhesive that holds the film to the glass.

Good luck on your new home...

Edited July 1, 2005 by metint

September 23, 2005

I want the heat reduction to be maximum. I suppose if that meant something which is so dark it might as well be covered in a dark wood then that would have to be a "non-option."
I've already reconciled to having reflective surfaces when the inside light is less bright than the outside light, so I don't think reflectiveness is an issue.

You mentioned that GILA is not the way to go. Assuming the same level of reflectiveness/light/dark as GILA Platinum, what *would* be the best way to go? Let's call that recommendation "A". Given "A" as a baseline, is there another option which dramatically improves the heat reduction but only marginally decreases the light that passes through?

Thanks

George

[*]289914

September 23, 2005

I want the heat reduction to be maximum. I suppose if that meant something which is so dark it might as well be covered in a dark wood then that would have to be a "non-option."
I've already reconciled to having reflective surfaces when the inside light is less bright than the outside light, so I don't think reflectiveness is an issue.

You mentioned that GILA is not the way to go. Assuming the same level of reflectiveness/light/dark as GILA Platinum, what *would* be the best way to go? Let's call that recommendation "A". Given "A" as a baseline, is there another option which dramatically improves the heat reduction but only marginally decreases the light that passes through?

Thanks

George

[*]289914

Try looking into Huper Optik window films they are very good at reducing heat while remaining clear

For instance

Huper 50%

Or if you have the money

V-kool is awsome

:spit

September 23, 2005

This guy was like....the cheapest person on the planet that wanted to use x square foot OTC film and install it himself.....

I don't think he's going to spring for a huper or v-kool install done by a pro.

Edited June 25, 2006 by darkdan

TINT · September 23, 2005

This guy was like....the cheapest person on the planet that wanted to use $xx square foot OTC film and install it himself.....
I don't think he's going to spring for a huper or v-kool install done by a pro.

[*]317677

yea wonder what happened to this guy anyway...

Edited June 25, 2006 by oldtinter

June 23, 2006

Sure.
Give me your email address and I'll email you all the specs I can find. Save some space on the board.

Darkdan,

I've been trying to collect spec info from various vendors and have met with a lot of frustration since most of what I've been able to get is 1/8" single pane clear data. BTW, I'm a consumer trying to make an informed decision on selecting a window film and not actually in the business.

Thanks,

Scott

Edited June 23, 2006 by Mdog

June 24, 2006

Since I only have the patience to have read thry the 3rd page of you looooong post I quit reading and am gonna post my comments. take it how you want it and that is that.

1)GILA is NOT top quality tint, if they were then they would not be sold at Home Depot or AutoZone.

2) GILA will not last more that 6 months or so do the fact I stated in #1.

3) Yes GILA is about --- a sqft and YES you will pay more than double that for a pro BUT you will have a quality job and it will last for years and sometimes save you money on you insurance.

4) Just because they have a blonde on the box doing it means SHIAT!! I am a blonde and tint professioanly!!! And I resent that statement.

5) There have been too many responses to this post so far so I will not waist anymore of my precious blonde professional tinting breathe or energy.

Edited June 25, 2006 by S and S

June 24, 2006

Sure.

Give me your email address and I'll email you all the specs I can find. Save some space on the board.

Darkdan,

I've been trying to collect spec info from various vendors and have met with a lot of frustration since most of what I've been able to get is 1/8" single pane clear data. BTW, I'm a consumer trying to make an informed decision on selecting a window film and not actually in the business.

Thanks,

Scott

Sadly, in the real world, doing all the math calculations you want isn't going to give you any meaningful information.

Compare the 1/8th single pane data to each other. This will give you a good idea of how they perform.

But considering in the real world, days of sunshine, amount of sunshine, amount of wind, wind speed, rain, local climate, etc etc etc are going to make knowing dual pane TSER just as meaningless as single pane TSER.

You'll never know for sure how much energy you'll save. You'll never know how much the temp will drop. You can only get a rough idea. Plus, comparing one brand's 35% to another brand's 35% with roughly the same specs will give you roughly the same results. A few percent here and there isn't going to account for another $50 a month saved or another 5 degrees in tempature drop.

Pick a good installer, pick a good brand, pick one that you like the looks of, and go with it. You're going to see a lot of benefits from it. Most likely if you had picked another similar film you won't "notice" any more or less of those benefits.

June 24, 2006

well said bubba well said.Now if you could tint a window in less than an hour and a half,you would be doing sumpim

June 25, 2006

Sure.

Give me your email address and I'll email you all the specs I can find. Save some space on the board.

Darkdan,

I've been trying to collect spec info from various vendors and have met with a lot of frustration since most of what I've been able to get is 1/8" single pane clear data. BTW, I'm a consumer trying to make an informed decision on selecting a window film and not actually in the business.

Thanks,

Scott

Sadly, in the real world, doing all the math calculations you want isn't going to give you any meaningful information.

Compare the 1/8th single pane data to each other. This will give you a good idea of how they perform.

But considering in the real world, days of sunshine, amount of sunshine, amount of wind, wind speed, rain, local climate, etc etc etc are going to make knowing dual pane TSER just as meaningless as single pane TSER.

You'll never know for sure how much energy you'll save. You'll never know how much the temp will drop. You can only get a rough idea. Plus, comparing one brand's 35% to another brand's 35% with roughly the same specs will give you roughly the same results. A few percent here and there isn't going to account for another $50 a month saved or another 5 degrees in tempature drop.

Pick a good installer, pick a good brand, pick one that you like the looks of, and go with it. You're going to see a lot of benefits from it. Most likely if you had picked another similar film you won't "notice" any more or less of those benefits.

Dan,

My understanding is that comparing TSER, VLT and aesthetics, given your post above is a fair way to compare films. Am I missing anything critical here?

I'm impressed with the Huper Ceramic 40 for my problematic rooms. I have two rooms that get direct sun and cause the AC to run continuously. The Huper looks and specs seem too good to be true. Have your customers generally had good experience using this film as a high performance solar rejection film on dual-pane clear?

I'm considering using the Ceramic 40 in the problem rooms and perhaps the Llumar N-1035 Bronze or Madico SL-380 on the back of my house to save money.

ScottyM :nohit: