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My fellow mmm haters


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who really cares what the manufacture gives as a warranty? It is worth about as much as the paper it is printed on. Yeah, if they approve the warranty work you will make something, but that consumer and anyone they talk to now has a lower opinion of window film as the film they have has failed.....

I am on the "kill the lifetime warranty" train though so....

:unsure:

Thats what I meant to say... :lol

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Guest teamfutaba
So... did 3M actually invent window film?

I could care less, I don't discuss who invented film with my customers anyway. I think they are more interested in what film will do for them not who invented the damn stuff anyway.

So when you tell them what Prestige will do for them do you pitch the on-angle TSER and IR rejection numbers?

yes... and show them with the meters as well. on a side note I make it a point to tell them about the near infrared 1000nm range. for most you should be talking greek.

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who really cares what the manufacture gives as a warranty? It is worth about as much as the paper it is printed on. Yeah, if they approve the warranty work you will make something, but that consumer and anyone they talk to now has a lower opinion of window film as the film they have has failed.....

I am on the "kill the lifetime warranty" train though so....

I have never had a warranty not approved. So not sure what film you use that you have issues getting it approved. All films fail. I have had Llumar fail in 3- 5 years and some last 15 years

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Guest teamfutaba
As I posted many times, I saw their films being produced by another company as we were tinting the mnaufacturers building. But, all you mmm dealers claim they make all of their films themselves. Just another inacuracy.......oops, FLAT OUT LIE!!! What else is new though..........Not much, just more BS!!!.................. :unsure:

every post ive read and have not seen 1 post claiming 3M makes all of there own film. maybe you could post a link for me.

Ok, skippy, here we go............The following is from the 3m website AND used by many of its dealers:

* 3M is well recognized around the world for their innovative technologies. They invented window film in 1966 and continue to set the standard for both quality and selection for commercial and residential projects. 3M is the only manufacturer that makes all of its window film components – film, adhesive and UV coating.

Here is a link to a dealers site....look halfway down..... t*t an Films......What you see is directly drawn from 3ms website and promotional material. But, of course YOU have never seen a post claiming that they do this.....try reasearching. As I posted, I installed Madico film on the facility that was producing film for 3m. Personnaly spoke to the factory heads and saw paperwork. But, I guess all that is a fantasy to all you 3m punchdrinkers........

what dealers use on there sites is there business. it dosent mean we all do it..

Their promotional information is always skewed to falsely mislead the customer. How about this one??

Optically Clearer. Technically Superior.

Creating a clear window film with all these advantages wasn't easy. It required the world-leading, nano-technology laboratories of 3M. Nano-technology works with materials that are over a thousand times smaller than the width of a hair. This expertise allows us to create a patented window film with hundreds of layers that is less than the thickness of a Post-it' Note. It has allowed us to create a film that delivers the highest performance possible without metal, which can corrode and interfere with mobile phone signals. (from the same site)

do you have proof its not... there trying to put nano technology into perspective by using p.o.p. sales techniques. maybe if your manu's should try nano promotion...

'hundreds of layers less than the thickness of a postit note?? So, a 1 to 1.5 mil window film is hundreds of layers??? I would love to see a single layer.............

try holding it sideways... color shift is a big seller. the custy can see the difference between the competition.

Unerstand me now, I do not bash all of their products, some are good, some are crap, what I do not like is the fact that they skew information or right out lie. This does not help our industry, but only pushes us farther into a voodoo mentality with the general public.

"STOP THE INSANITY!!!" .....................................where's Suan Powter when you need her?????

actually its 6000 times smaller than a human hair.

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Guest teamfutaba
If what that states is true, I can rebut the claim with to any potential customer using the adhesive failure to my advantage....The construction of uv inhibitors in polymers is made up of some organic and non organic compounds when broken down result in different common chemicals..One of these non organic, is alkylene oxide, which is produced with a hydroxyl based compound, saturated in monohydric alcohol...Will any of you gents go out on a limb and reccomend using alcohol, lets say to apply film...I'm going to guess "no", so why would one recommend using a product "saturated" in alcohol, in an adhesive....All that pops into my head would be adhesive failure, and we all know what that looks like.. :unsure:

http://www.wikipatents.com/3666713.html-3

This link will explain the uv inhibitors used in polymers..

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7402644/claims.html

Link 2 will take 1 chemical copmposition from Link 1, and break down components...

I would say 1 out of a thousand could understand what you telling them. that means 999 dont really care. thats a classic case of over selling. romancing the custy is one thing, smothering them with too much info can be bad for closing sales.

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Guest teamfutaba
Hey Custom, dryshrinker is a good guy, a real pro who represents ethically. He's also the only 3M dealer to stay in the conversation whereas the others just strafe and run.

I brought the adhesive claim up because it landed in my email box. There are tons of statements out there to that effect and they are not accurate. UV absorbers placed in the adhesive are very unstable and lose their effectiveness faster than UV absorbers that are embedded in the PET. Another source told me that in the case of Prestige there is an extra PET layer between the adhesive and the multi-stack layer. This is most likely there to protect the multi-stack layers from the alcohol and other nasties in the adhesive layer because they would otherwise destroy the micro-layers if the protective PET layer was not there.

:lol Good DD sunlimitedCT! :unsure:

I will give some props to DRYSHRINKER as well, It appears he has been a good sport, and hung in there solo when all other mmm ers have fled to the lifeboats. One in particular has been conspicuously absent from this whole thread, I know he has been eavesdropping but no comment as of yet.

tomtint and vclimber, thanks for the props. between us we have more years invested than most of our competition has been alive. as long as you fly straight you will last in this business. seems some on here could use a lesson on that one.

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Guest vclimber
I have a hard time believing this thread is still alive & basically saying the same thing as the first 2 pages... So MMM isn't the best film on the market...SO WHAT!!!

It has name recognition & most homeowners are more comfortable w/ this film being used on their home & most are willing to pay a little extra to get it. MMM uses this same approach to dealers, it's called "Business 101". As a business owner I actually try to turn as large of a profit as I actually can. If I go against 3 other tint shops on an estimate & we all use the same film, guess what? The homeowner goes w/ the cheapest!

However, if we all match in personality & reputation then it would be nice to have something in your arsenal to put you ahead of the pack. It's called "Business 101" guys...

No I disagree. It is not the same thing as the first 2 pages.

Spreading misleading and false information is what has been discussed. Why can't it just stop and everyone compete off of sound factual information? The auto industry has always suffered from the sales tactics of auto dealers... let's not let that kind of conduct continue in the window film industry. We're better than that. :unsure:

I have more questions... brb

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Guest teamfutaba
Case in point. Here is a link that arrived in my e mail. :beer

Incredible, The ammt of complete garbage on that site is just par for the course

you know, after reading these posts and having been with many different manu's. you have to have a new out look on the way you present your product to the custys. as many years as I have been selling film I still learn from people and there ideas on how it should be. case in point, vc's cage match with the film disty on the vs70 thread. there were comments made on both sides that were relevent selling points that I in all my years in this industry havent thought of using.

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