The Legality War!!

[Glass Tinting Supplies]

In the two years time I've been with this company or the 10 years just simply growing up around the industry and shop I've never come across any incident of a customer returning to blame us for either a window tint fix it ticket infraction nor have they blamed us for any incident that they may have gotten into an accident. Although none of our customers have gotten into an accident we have a very strict lined out release form that cannot hold anyone or installer liable for any re precautions of having film on the front doors or any front portion of the vehicle that's darker than 70% by the state law of California. This is the reason why when I right down what film is being applied where I have the customer initial his/her name saying verbally that you are okay with us applying this to your car with them initialing next to it. Once more do they have to sign the whole documentation that releases all liability to us. I myself am not going to lose a customer due to not putting a film on their front doors if they really want it on there. I tell them it's illegal by any means no matter if they choose the lightest in FXPM line which is a 55%. But if telling them strictly no we will not tint your front doors and they end up walking off because the next shop down the street will be more than happy. Then there's no reason to even be open for business. Because I haven't come across not one shop here in Southern California that WILL NOT apply any film shade that will read lower than a 70% on a VLT meter due to it being "illegal tint".

G'day Reckless,

 

This is a really good topic that needs to be discussed further, and by people with influence.

 

Firstly my own thoughts are that I want my customer to be safe no matter what. If they were to have an accident due to me putting on an unsafe tint, I would feel like I "pulled the trigger" so to speak.

 

The bottom line is that our industry will never gain the respect it needs, nor will we be able to get consistant laws whilst people continue to install unsafe and illegal VLT's.

 

I am not saying it's right or wrong.. Heck... I hate the laws we have here, they are just plain silly. However, to say that you won't be losing business to the guy down the road is a cop out. Any customer that insists that they want 5% at my shop, goes walking out of my shop.

 

Not because it is illegal, but because it is unsafe. I value each and every customer of mine over the past 18 years, and that is why I still tint cars for the same people and their families all these years later. I want them to get the best products and I want there tint to be flawless. But what I don't want is for them to get a ticket, or be victim to a serious accident due to my inability to take the time to explain that I won't be installing the darkness they want, and why I won't.

 

I have converted people who come in and demand 5%, into getting the darkest legal many times.

Please, this is just my experiences and opinion.

 

I have been really loving your work Reckless. Keep it up man!

May I just suggest when posting pics of "darker shades" to keep the VLT out of the post? I only say this as it reflects upon all of us in the forum in a way that a consumer would be encouraged that a high quality installer like yourself in a way promotes darker VLT's.

 

Like I say mate, lovin your work, and I really think you have a great manner and handle yourself very well. You don't cus or lose your temper, I sign of a professional. And this is a subject that needs to be talked more about. Just needs to be constructive way IMO.

 

If police enforcement, laws and the assosiation don't force people to use only legal films, then angry remarks on a forum certainly won't either.

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"

 

Bring back some love to TD lads. Too much haytn

[Glass Tinting Supplies]

Easier and less stress and more money doing non illegal jobs, works for me, 13 years ++ yes i lost jobs, but i have more respect and a better rep because of it

,

Very well said Sir

[pulsar2000]

Hate to Generalize.  But people that want way to dark on Front sides in the 13years i have been tinting are virtually always never driving anything worth a load, sooner let them go somewhere else,  any where but my shop,  I can carry on with the mercs, beemers, Audis etc,

Let my competitors take the Sh$t boxes....

[WearTheFoxHat]

I have to disagree. It would be one thing to sell the film, but to knowingly install it for them illegally is different.

 

I'd liken installing tint that is illegal for your territory  to pulling the trigger for the custy.

 

On a side note I do not know if tint was involved but in the town I grew up in there is a guy that backed over TWO  of his own kids in the driveway.

The only quotes I recall were "I didn't see them".

Was 20 + years ago.

 

 

 

So glad our shop only installs flat glass

[Tint Eastwood]

Here's how I see it. WE are the professionals, NOT the customers. Most people just know that dark tint makes it so people can't see them, they do not realize (or do not care) that it reduces their line of sight in certain conditions and circumstances. Why should we be giving the power of choice to people who have just barely a clue about it, or as said before...no regard for it?

 

What if other professionals in their own industry started giving the power of choice over to their customers/clients/patients? Should builders look the other way or help a client deceive the city/county/state/federal inspections and permit offices? Would it be ok for them to use unrated building materials or neglect building codes and safety guidelines because the customer wants what they want? Should doctors allow their patients to dictate their own diagnosis, medication and treatments, especially if it deviates outside of the laws that are in place to protect them and everyone else? 

 

Why do we not think of our own industry and the laws that are set in place in these ways? I do not feel comfortable giving the driver's seat of my company (or industry for that matter) to someone who just wants what they want with no regard to state regulations or the negative impacts it can cause on this industry as a whole. 

 

This is not meant to down those that do, I just see it as a "short term gain, long term loss" deal.

[Tint Eastwood]

I just realized there has been some heavy debate on this lately. Want to make sure I reiterate this is not meant to offend.

 

Though I will say I think I've cooled my head on this topic from where I used to be.....for those that remember.

[TintByMasters]

The Wolf of Wall Street Meme had me dying...

[Tintmaster08]

Here's my opinion, first off I think most state tint laws are ridiculous and most if not all were written by a bunch of people whom have never had any experience with window film. I feel the laws are what needs to be addressed, as it makes no sense for a state to have a 15% vlt variance over under its surrounding neighboring states. We can argue all day about what's right and wrong about doing, but the real argument should be with state legislature for them to change these tint laws in which some have been in place and unchanged for 10 to 20 years. A window tint infraction should never be a primary reason to pull someone over when old bubbly fading and delaminating film pose the same if not greater safety risk as "illegal" window film.

[pulsar2000]

In the two years time I've been with this company or the 10 years just simply growing up around the industry and shop I've never come across any incident of a customer returning to blame us for either a window tint fix it ticket infraction nor have they blamed us for any incident that they may have gotten into an accident. Although none of our customers have gotten into an accident we have a very strict lined out release form that cannot hold anyone or installer liable for any re precautions of having film on the front doors or any front portion of the vehicle that's darker than 70% by the state law of California. This is the reason why when I right down what film is being applied where I have the customer initial his/her name saying verbally that you are okay with us applying this to your car with them initialing next to it. Once more do they have to sign the whole documentation that releases all liability to us. I myself am not going to lose a customer due to not putting a film on their front doors if they really want it on there. I tell them it's illegal by any means no matter if they choose the lightest in FXPM line which is a 55%. But if telling them strictly no we will not tint your front doors and they end up walking off because the next shop down the street will be more than happy. Then there's no reason to even be open for business. Because I haven't come across not one shop here in Southern California that WILL NOT apply any film shade that will read lower than a 70% on a VLT meter due to it being "illegal tint".

In the Uk,  No disclaimer in the world signed or even witnessed would get you out of the sh1t,  if its a state law, its the law, disclaimer or not,

with regards to this disclaimer, sure you and your boss may think your above the law, guaranteed wouldnt hold up in court, no matter what you may think,,,  no offence

[Bham]

We have 50 states with 50 different laws... and each jurisdiction is allowed to enforce them differently(their interpretation)... So yes the laws and regulations have issues. Some of the biggest vehicles on the road are allowed to be as dark as 5% legally in the rear.  There is no way to regulate every make and model to the same standards.  This is never going to change, only get more difficult.  

 

As for the installation of illegal film....  well... choices are what make us individuals.  We all choose one way or another..  If you don't like my choice,, fine,, I (ME, NOT  YOU) WILL DEAL WITH IT!! 

 

My choice is to let the individual make the final choice on his or her own safety.  You can argue the fact that they may or may not pull out and hit someone after they have their windows tinted in limo tint.  But you are not going to convince me that it is my fault they did so.  And I am not going to lose sleep over every limo tinted vehicle I do.  Fate is what it is.. so is Karma.. or whatever you believe in.  

 

Lets look at the vehicle side of things along with your worry of getting hit by someone with dark tint.  That very same person could be in a cargo van with only a driver and passenger window and nothing else(no rear windows at all).  They make these vehicles in all shapes and sizes with no windows whatsoever in the rear,, and you want to tell me dark tinted windows are worse.    Not to mention the blind spots in vehicles these days without tint on the windows.  

 

Also lets talk about vehicle wrapping..  These perforated window graphics impair vision but I don't hear anyone saying anything about that.  Ever tried driving one of those advertisements cars in the rain.  All those little perforations hold water and make it very hard to see.  Just sayin.  

 

Now as far as getting in trouble legally after installing tint.  If that ever happens I will deal with it.  BUT, any good lawyer can handle that argument.  Going back to my cashier statement.  Every store out there sells items that can be used illegally and regulating all of these products is absolutely impossible.  You can't make everybody sign a waiver when they buy a hunting knife at Wal-mart.  And Wal-mart is not going to get in trouble for selling said knife to a person who decided to slash someone with it.  And that cashier should not lose any sleep over the choice that customer made after coming thru their line.  

 

Now ....  if you have ever tinted a set of tail lights....Had an in-dash DVD player that would play while driving(that's a good one right there) ....had your bass music up past a certain Db...  Changed the exhaust or deleted a catalytic converter  to make it louder... added a different color light other than factory to shine while driving(glow kits,,strobes,,etc)  I could probably keep going.....    But all of these things are illegal and no different than choosing to have or install illegal window tint.