TomTint

Ok, I'll play....we had 18 pieces of glass 59x162.. with total light block white out.. certainly a pita to do. 

14 minutes ago, Gary_tintington said:

Interesting. I remember Huper ceramic being shiny like 3m ceramic. 

VLR is 12% ish...very low.

17 hours ago, Gary_tintington said:

I know that. You said you could feel the radiant heat more with huper though, which is reflective, compared to qdp ceramic? If you meant their ceramic? Which I assume is not reflective. Is that right? 

 The Huper Ceramic is not reflective, and yes I can feel the heat radiating off of it more than the QDP

14 minutes ago, Gary_tintington said:

On a side note; I think that window film performance has reached it's peak. I hear about Stratos having the same radiant heat from heavy absorption like Tom is describing with Huper and it makes sense. I feel like Crystalline has always been on top, 60% tser 97% super magic IR rejection yadda yadda. But it's a hard sell when we also have solar fx ceramic which has the same real world feel pretty much, in a regular looking film in normal vlts (66%tser in limo) without the $600 price tag. 

  There are 3 things Window Film is capable of doing with heat and light. Absorb it, Reflect it or Transmit it....nothing else.. if it's not shiny...it's absorbing the heat ( ceramic ) if it's absorbing it..it will re radiate it. ..( think about asphalt ) ..soaks up the suns radiation and re radiates it back.. Film is no different. 

FWIW, I have Huper ceramic on one of my trucks and global QDP of basically the same V!T on another one of my trucks. The ceramic gets noticeably hotter and I can feel the heat radiating off of it....not so with the QDP. ... from the exterior they both look similar. 

When you call these reps, rest assured, they will check on your web page, reviews etc, before calling you back. If you do not have a professional on line presence..you will likely not get a return call. 

Depending on which Llumar product you have.....makes a huge difference in the amount of heat that will be rejected. Good old fashoned Silver 20 is going to be the best performing of the bunch, but many home owners don't want to make the reflective compromise. 

..02........ let others be the guinea pigs....... you have been warned. 

4 hours ago, jh812 said:

Before doing so I encourage you to read the total money makeover and entreleadership by Dave Ramsey. What is not assumed is the risk that goes along with the mortgage and running a business with debt. What happens when you fall off of a ladder and have to lay out of work for 6 months? I'm not saying rent you're entire career that would definitely be dumb. All I'm saying is people rush into a mortgage way to soon because of numerous reasons and wind up bankrupt. There's absolutely nothing wrong with renting for a few years so that you can save up and pay cash for a place

 

  If you own a property and fall off a ladder...you then rent your property. ...if you fall of a ladder and are locked into a lease.... you still need to cover that lease and most landlords frown of sub leasing... 

For flat glass I prefer the film to bo on the roll liner out. Autoi would assume liner in would be preferable.

I don't know your financial situation or your geographic location, but ..if you are mobile now and covering your expenses..and are able to save a bit of money..keep saving until you have enough for a down payment to buy your own space. Renting or leasing is only good for the land owner. You pay their nut..and they ride the wave as the property escalates in value.. then they raise your rent... IMO..wait till you can swing a purchase and thank me in a few years. 

Hard to put that cat back in the bag.

17 hours ago, jh812 said:

👍 That would take out that risk only downside is most exterior film has around a 5 year life expectancy. 

  If you are going to use exterior film, look for a dealer that uses Hanita. Virtually every other MFR just slaps their AG coating on their solar film and calls it "exterior" ... And on a skylight it may last less than 3 years. 

Eastman bought ST for 2 reasons. First they wanted their PPF technology and 2nd.. They posed to much competition for them. After the purchase they systematically gutted quality control at ST deliberately. Its now the red headed step child of the Eastman portfolio. As others have suggested look at Global. It's a rock solid product.

You could use matt PPf

If you have a FH you can probably get 4 good edges..at least 3 and only have to trim 1. You will need the big set of rollers as the film comes on 6" cores. A cutting table is nice to have as long as the guy who is looking at the smart end of the tape measure was good, and you have a good system in place for organization and getting film to the project. 

On 6/8/2019 at 5:12 AM, Midtown Houston said:

Dam...I just outdid my dam self...everything within reach and making any installer efficient with the Mini Mobile Glass Station.  This station can be adjusted and can fit in your vehicle....

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Glass Station making window film installer around the nation very efficient
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  Nice set ups.. looks li,e they are well thought out and well built. A couple things that may add to them would be a gutter type water catcher at the bottom of the glass board, and a tape measure apparatus below the roll holder. . Not knocking your product at all, I think it's beautiful. 

I have always been a big advocate for telling dealers with in house tinters to F.O. .. if. You are truly a skilled tinter.. ( and not in just 3-4 models that were plotter cut ) ..than your skill set is in demand. Like Roach said, there is more to running a business than just slapping plastic on windows. In fact... many of the most successful business owners I know..don't tint themselves at all. 

Many years ago I had him make me a couple pouches and a nice bag to carry tools.. used that bag for years until someone left the cover off a Triumph and slit the side wide open.. 

FB groups.....how many times can you look at a picture of a trash filled car that some clown is tinting. ... and complaining about the trash in it....that's a typical FB group post... 

50 minutes ago, Guest Tint 999 said:

Thanks TomTint,  I guess that becomes the question regarding the durability of PS over DA....since DA was created as a superior option for flat glass films, although surely latest tech in PS has to be reasonable in this regard.

  Some will tell you that PS is advanced to the point where it will last longer than the films expected life cycle... this is usually parroted by those who have PS flat glass films they want to sell. I have been doing this for the better part of 35 years.. I do not recall ever seeing a DA adhesive failure ..where as I have seen PS failure more times than I can count. While DA adhesive is most certainly a PITA to remove..PS requires a razor blade in most cases as well.. which will inevitably cause the same issues in glass with fabrication debris or other surface 4 coating. That said, the glass that is being produced today is typically such high quality and energy efficient..adding window film is quickly becoming a loser based on ROI. .. 

10 minutes ago, Guest Tint 999 said:

So....if no practical solution, is installing architectural films with PS adhesive from here on a wise move if PS films are deemed easier to remove in these circumstances?

If so, who makes a range of high quality dual reflective films with PS adhesive...and will it last well?

  There are plenty of DR films with PS adhesive. Huper , Solar Gard, Express, Global, just to name a few. As far as how long will it last.. install it and let me know how it looks in 15 years. 

2 hours ago, cleverchimp said:

Thanks for the insight Tom, I’m fully aware of that and I agree with you about ceramic film. Thermostat indeed show its hotter, I was more into trying to understand the hype of Huper Optik film and ceramic film in general, spending $500 for a 10F temp reduction might not that wise, I might settle for 8F temp reduction for half of that with LLumar. Maybe that’s probably why 3M dont go with ceramic for their Crystalline series?

 

The dealer mentioned that my problem is on the windshield (I know that this will contribute to the ambient temperature) and quote me another $250 for C50...but the heat I feel is coming from the treated windows and I want to figure this out first. I can feel comfortable with 80F weather and 2 bar of AC at the coldest setting, but if its 90F to 100F outside the AC will need to be blasted to max level, not much different before I get the film treated...what gives?

If it's 90-100* outside.. it makes no difference what you have on your windows..it's going to be hot. You need to temper your expectations. And 3M did not go the ceramic route..because Huper has the only true ceramic ( patented ) film on the market. All the others are one type of hybrid or another. As far as ceramics go..Huper is the best of the options. 

1 hour ago, 3M Tech Guy said:

It is absolutely our right and responsibility to challenge the status quo. The reason I ran this analysis was because I wanted to know if/how PPF thickness affected paint chipping resistance. To me, thicker film should provide better protection. In our OEM business, we use 10 mil and 14 mil PPF's for lower rocker applications. Why? Because they provide better protection on very demanding areas of the vehicle.

 

While I have read this forum for a while, I know I am new to posting to the forum. As such, why should anyone believe what I say? Why shouldn't everyone challenge what I say? I can't answer those questions for you, but please understand that since I represent 3M, any time I post experimental findings, they are approved by 3M Legal.

 

@STEK HOWARD - Very valid point wrt the dial caliper. While not the truest method for measuring thickness, it is fairly accurate. And, I cannot bring a camera into our testing room for confidentiality reasons. I will quantify how much compression I can generate tomorrow and report back. For this video, I tried very hard, to use the same pressure. My guess is that the most I could compress any PPF would be 0.1 mil, but I'll check.

 

@Noel - While the results look and feel like brand advertising, the intent was to educate the installers and end customers that there are real consequences for installing/buying thinner films. Stretching a thin film, will result in a thinner film area, than stretching a thicker film in the same area. The gravelometer test is a standard OEM test. What variables of the test would you like me to clarify?

 

@JoshVette - Yes, the panels all look similar. That's why I only counted the paint chips. As I stated above, it is absolutely your right and responsibility to challenge my results. I could have simply circled more dents in the thinner films (3M Legal would not have approved publication of the video if this was the case). It's up to you to believe whatever you choose to believe. However, why not challenge everyone else's claims that their films are 8 mils thick? In your opinion, what factors need to be controlled to make this a scientific test? And finally, does it make sense to you, that a thicker film would provide better protection?

 

@TomTint - Once again, it is your right and responsibility to challenge my results. I will just toss this out there: If you don't believe my results, prove me wrong.

 

A 90 degree angle of impact provides the greatest amount of energy and therefore, the greatest opportunity to chip the paint. As such, it is the most demanding circumstance to run the test. That is also why the panels are conditioned at -30C prior to the test: to create a worst-case scenario. This is why the OEM specification test methods require a 90 degree impact angle.

  Our in house data shows that Llumar out performs 3M using the miter E scale test. Performance was tested using #7 unwashed aggregate at a 46 mph velocity and 72* angle of impact. No damage was noticeable to the Llumar test media, the 3M was damaged beyond the point of being salvageable 

You first need to understand that window film is not a AC unit. It makes zero difference what film you put on your car and then park it in the sun.. it’s still going to be like a oven inside. Think of it this way, imagine you have a empty cup and then turn on a faucet full blast. The cup fills up very fast ( now imagine that water is the suns heat and the cup is your cars interior. ..same cup, same faucet.. but you cut the flow of water ( heat ) by 50%... that cup is still going to fill up..just a little slower. Also..ceramic films absorb and retain heat.. so that alone plays a part to a certain degree. ..ceramic = today’s gimmick.02