How to get out of the Ceramic trap...

[boomer]

Your still filling the car with heat, just at a slower rate. The film is a filter aka insulation. The better the filter the better the filtering process.

[RockyDaz]

http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php/topic/77275-vehicle-still-hot-after-getting-it-tinted/

  I saw this as well.

I guess Ralph's explanation wasn't sufficient after all.

BTW - a very good post Ralph and a good explanation I thought.

Tom's analogy was excellent also.

[Guest triplejjj]

http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php/topic/77275-vehicle-still-hot-after-getting-it-tinted/

  I saw this as well.

I guess Ralph's explanation wasn't sufficient after all.

BTW - a very good post Ralph and a good explanation I thought.

Tom's analogy was excellent also.

I guess not but I wanted some other professionals opinion. The heat

box is a gross misrepresentation to the consumer of what it does.

One would think after the demo their car would be cooler upon

entering. Pano flex does block out the heat but after a few seconds

it gets hot just like any tint out there. Might be the best out there

just not what I thought it was going to do based on the demonstration.

[coast2coasttinting]

You can't really compare a light bulb to the power of the sun. It is just a demonstration of how it blocks out IR heat. Which a ceramic film does better then any other film on the market.

Just try rolling you window down facing the sun, and you will feel a big difference in the amount of solar energy hitting you face. Roll the wimdows back up and the amount of heat should be greatly reduced.

This is the same basic principle of the heat demonstration.

[Guest triplejjj]

You can't really compare a light bulb to the power of the sun. It is just a demonstration of how it blocks out IR heat. Which a ceramic film does better then any other film on the market.

Just try rolling you window down facing the sun, and you will feel a big difference in the amount of solar energy hitting you face. Roll the wimdows back up and the amount of heat should be greatly reduced.

This is the same basic principle of the heat demonstration.

It's a good tint to be sure, and your right it does block out

the light testing it the way you say to try it. No problems with

the Panoflex or the install.

I guess I didn't like the fact that some people think

I'm an idiot for thinking it would be cooler after the car sits in the sun all day.

I made my own light box and it works just like

the demo did.

I hope no one took offense to my questions or post, If I don't know

I ask and sometimes I just have find out on my own

by trying it out or putting it to the test so to speak.

One example is, I had an car alarm installed and I asked

them why the icon for the perimeter sensor didn't show

on my remote. They told me that's not possible. Well

it is and it now shows up on the remote. I just don't no for an answer.

You see, when you ask questions or talk about the problems

your likes, dislikes it "hopefully" makes products better otherwise nothing

would ever improve.

thanks for you input

jj

[Tintguy1980]

Let's be clear; when using light bulbs for demonstrating film, the one that is closest to mimicking the sun and still be affordable is a halogen bulb. This is whether used to have someone place their hand in front of the demo and changing film/glass samples or using a meter. The chart below shows the sun, halogen, incandescent (light bulb) and incandescent (infrared 2500K light bulb) across wavelengths film is designed to reduced to some degree or another and it clearly shows using an infrared only mimics half the energy from the sun (5% of visible is all it represents) thereby is misleading a client into the ceramic trap.

 

If you want to fairly and accurately demo using a bulb, buy a 80W halogen flood (for large demos and a 75w Capsylite halogen for small demos). If using a BTU meter, be sure to keep at the right distance throughout by setting in a position to read 270-290 (what it would read directing it toward the sun on a clear day) with nothing in front (including clear glass) and then begin the comparing of performance in film samples.

[Tint Eastwood]

Was waiting for smartie to chime in...... Good post

[Guest triplejjj]

Let's be clear; when using light bulbs for demonstrating film, the one that is closest to mimicking the sun and still be affordable is a halogen bulb. This is whether used to have someone place their hand in front of the demo and changing film/glass samples or using a meter. The chart below shows the sun, halogen, incandescent (light bulb) and incandescent (infrared 2500K light bulb) across wavelengths film is designed to reduced to some degree or another and it clearly shows using an infrared only mimics half the energy from the sun (5% of visible is all it represents) thereby is misleading a client into the ceramic trap.

 

If you want to fairly and accurately demo using a bulb, buy a 80W halogen flood (for large demos and a 75w Capsylite halogen for small demos). If using a BTU meter, be sure to keep at the right distance throughout by setting in a position to read 270-290 (what it would read directing it toward the sun on a clear day) with nothing in front (including clear glass) and then begin the comparing of performance in film samples.

I used a 100 watt incandescent, not sure what the kelvin was but the owner used a 100 watt red incandescent to demo and not a halogen this i'm sure of. I just made use out of what I had available at the time. I bit it - hook, line and sinker. Gotta admit it's a clever idea but customers are going to think it's going to do something it's not. Well at least not what they think anyway. That'll work for a while but once it's out and people review it they'll loose faith. Explain the demo correctly and what it does exactly and you'll still win there confidence. 

thanks for posting

[EWF]

 it clearly shows using an infrared only mimics half the energy from the sun (5% of visible is all it represents) thereby is misleading a client into the ceramic trap.

 

Smart,

 

I hope you don't grow tired of hearing this - but I agree with you 100% once again.  Another terrific post.

 

Advice to anyone that wants to avoid the "Ceramic Trap":  Learn and understand what luminous efficacy is.  The beauty and benefit of the ceramics is that they will give you a higher TSER at a constant VLT.

 

Heat boxes are terrific tools for demonstrating the heat blocking capabilities of window films.  Where they become misleading is when they are used to compare Film A to Film B.  That is when customers (and even some within our industry) fall into the trap.

 

-Howard

[Glass Tinting Supplies]

Your a legend Smarts!

 

I thought about this today, and tried to think from the angle that JJJ is coming from.

 

Would there be a more simple way to demonstrate a realistic situation?

 

If you need a small demonstration that would fit on your workshop bench, then you would be best getting 2 small scale model cars that has glass for windows. Carefully adding small pieces of film to the glass of 1 of the model vehicles, then place an equal sized piece of ice inside both cars then turn on the appropriate 75W halogen globe above both model cars under controlled conditions.

 

What you would see is what happens in "real life". The glass that has the film will reduce the amount of heat transfer and hence the ice will take longer to melt. The model with the film on the glass would remain cooler for only a short time. Eventually both vehicles will reach the same temperature as the glass only plays a small factor in the overall heat transfer that will eventually cause the both cars to be hot inside.

 

Does this mean that you wasted your money JJJ?

The answer in 100% NO. Why?

Because it is the punishment that your panaflex is taking day in and day out that will make it the best investment you can make as an aftermarket addition to your car.

 

It will virtually stop all UVA and UVB rays from damaging not only yours and your families skin, but also it will reduce excessive glare and heat from entering through the glass. The film will be dramatically extend the life our your interior as well as significantly reduce the chance of the occupants of your vehicle from potentially fatal skin deceases that are caused by the sun's rays.

 

In short, your car will get hot, but slower... And the film is preventing materials and items in the car from direct solar energy that will cause your interior to heat up and there for put out further radiating heat inside the vehicles cabin. That simply means that things won't be hot to the touch, but the air inside your cabin will get hot because there are many other factors at play in creating that cabin heat other than the glass.

 

Your vehicle will cool faster when driving and using your air conditioning, and hence you are creating a payback period for your investment.

 

Allow your film to take the beating that the sun will dish out to your car, enjoy a pristine interior for longer, salivate on the knowledge that you and the occupants of your car are protected from damaging solar rays, rub your hands together knowing that you are saving in full costs and hence in a small way helping work toward a more sustainable future.... Also, your car looks radical when tinted!!!

 

Tint rules!