How that's TB working out for you?

[The ///Man]

Hi The /// Man,

Actually - I think the way you handled it was perfect. If there is one thing that comes across in your posts, you definitely care about your customers.

Was this dealer aware that you were installing non-CS? As you and I both agree, $6 would have bought the upgrade. Was that option offered?

Did you discuss the benefits, costs, differences, life expectancies with this customer?

I think I would have handled the warranty the way you did, but I might have approached the original sale from a different angle. The general public does not know CS, Non-CS, Ceramic, Hybrid, Dyed, Extruded, Laminated, etc.

Do you feel you help educate the customer to the degree that they made an informed decision?

-Howard

Dealer didn't care what went on the car, hence why at the time I was installing HP Smoke, STD and gave TB a shot. It was never discussed with the dealer because you expect 3 yr film to at least look decent a couple years, not a couple months. Remember, there really wasn't a warranty "issue", they were just in getting a replaced door window re-tinted, I was just embarrassed by how the tint looked in such a short amount of time. The initial sale isn't actually a "sale" per se. We install a tint for a price because if you've ever dealt with car salesmen/managers/finance guys it doesn't matter what you tell them, they are going to pull something out of their ass anyways to get the sale. I have never seen or met the owner of the vehicle until yesterday. I did educate them that next time they purchase a new vehicle to avoid getting it done through the dealer and see me or a shop directly as generally there will be more options and possibly better film for the money.

[EWF]

Dealer didn't care what went on the car,

It was never discussed.

To what degree (if any) were the best interests of the vehicle owner considered?

[The ///Man]

Dealer didn't care what went on the car,

It was never discussed.

To what degree (if any) were the best interests of the vehicle owner considered?

It's a car dealer, the only thing they consider is their bottom line.

So I just wanted to reiterate though, if this were your customer you would remove that film and put on something acceptable?

[The ///Man]

Thank you.

[justn8]

I think this thread is a bit ridiculous and over done. Yeah the blame has been passed but come on.

Howard is a private distributor and is obviously going to cater to every market possible.

The Man is a reputable business owner looking for a great deal, bought one of the least expensive, non colour stable films on the market and found it to be just that. The least expensive non colour stable film on the market.

Howard should have directed him away from it given The Man's climate, and The Man shouldn't of expected so much for so little.

I say both share equal parts, and have both gone forward with business in intelligent ways.

I've flirted with cheap films, I learned, and that's done.

All this thread, and it is useful, has done is make others aware that this film is what it has claimed to be. It's all numbers, it performs mostly as to be expected in most areas, for most of it's users requirements, and nothing more. Hence why it's sold.

Was somebody mislead here? Most of us know what this stuff is.

[The ///Man]

Now that I have some more time.

Hi TTS,

Correct!! How do you know us so well?? Are we that predictable ??

Yes. We observed the lightening of some of the pigments in the first generation of the product, which gave the film a brownish cast when observed under artificial light. Out in the daylight, the color shift is visible but the aged color is neither unsightly or attention grabbing.

TB is not Global or Llumar, but it holds it's own better than anything else in it's price range. We don't offer a CS warranty on TB, but we have tested other CS films that did not perform as well as TB and sell for 2X - 3X the price.

Your eye is going to pick up things that the customer does not - that is a given. But the customer is the final authority. If he or she is happy, so am I.

In a year it will probably look the same, just lighter.

It has definitely improved with each subsequent revision. It's much better than every other non color-stable film we have evaluated. Don't forget that we do sell CS films like our Classic Series.

[The ///Man]

LOL we should merge this thread in with http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?sh...lack&st=200 for all of the people wanting the picture request.

[justn8]

I've seen Shadow change colour noticeably (to me, only) in Canada in under 2 years. It was "colour stable" or whatever the hell they tried to say (some runs were DEFINITELY better than others). So I don't see how he's wrong there

And your customer didn't notice it or care, so he's right there.

I'm not defending it to be honest, I'm just saying, you hate the stuff and obviously want to prove it. Don't blame you. But to test out a new product, this is cheap experience.

You can say what you want about me, but if it was a car done through a dealership, I would've done it the following way:

A) The customer never would have known it was me. I've told mine not to let out my information, and to deal with issues first themselves by having vehicle dropped off at their dealership (should this ever even occur) and then they ferry them to me or I'd go to them.

B) IF they did come to me, I'd be straight up.

"Well Sir/Mam, I went to replace the window, however the new product didn't match up exactly. Due to the price limitations we have with performing installs on dealer vehicles, we do not install window film that is considered 'colour stable', even though it is in fact covered for cracking, delamination and adhesive failiure. Now, I could have gone and replaced your window with new, identical product, but I didn't feel that would satisfy my professional tastes. Therefore, if you wish, I will as a gesture for you inconvenience, install a better performing, fully colour stable film on your vehicle. If you're happy with this, please feel free to recommend my shop in the future".

I just honestly don't see the whole huge issue here. Maybe I'm a total idiot.

For future reference The Man, you're actually one of my favourite guys on here, so don't take this in any way personal. You're an auto success story, since you've gone from nickle and diming to upselling like a crazy person You really are what I'm hoping to do here. I just don't really see how you got anything other than what you purchased in this case

[justn8]

LOL we should merge this thread in with http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?sh...lack&st=200 for all of the people wanting the picture request.

Keep in mind that this was one of Howard's quotes from that thread:

Good for you ///Man !! An installer at your experience level is worth it.

For dealer work - EWF suggests either straight CS films or getting the dealer on board with a Good/Better/Best program. Using straight non-CS is OK, provided you are up front and honest about it, but as "addicted" pointed out - it's probably worth investing the few extra bucks to move up to CS if you are only going to offer one film.

-Howard

[The ///Man]

I've seen Shadow change colour noticeably (to me, only) in Canada in under 2 years. It was "colour stable" or whatever the hell they tried to say (some runs were DEFINITELY better than others). So I don't see how he's wrong there

And your customer didn't notice it or care, so he's right there.

I'm not defending it to be honest, I'm just saying, you hate the stuff and obviously want to prove it. Don't blame you. But to test out a new product, this is cheap experience.

You can say what you want about me, but if it was a car done through a dealership, I would've done it the following way:

A) The customer never would have known it was me. I've told mine not to let out my information, and to deal with issues first themselves by having vehicle dropped off at their dealership (should this ever even occur) and then they ferry them to me or I'd go to them.

B) IF they did come to me, I'd be straight up.

"Well Sir/Mam, I went to replace the window, however the new product didn't match up exactly. Due to the price limitations we have with performing installs on dealer vehicles, we do not install window film that is considered 'colour stable', even though it is in fact covered for cracking, delamination and adhesive failiure. Now, I could have gone and replaced your window with new, identical product, but I didn't feel that would satisfy my professional tastes. Therefore, if you wish, I will as a gesture for you inconvenience, install a better performing, fully colour stable film on your vehicle. If you're happy with this, please feel free to recommend my shop in the future".

I just honestly don't see the whole huge issue here. Maybe I'm a total idiot.

For future reference The Man, you're actually one of my favourite guys on here, so don't take this in any way personal. You're an auto success story, since you've gone from nickle and diming to upselling like a crazy person You really are what I'm hoping to do here. I just don't really see how you got anything other than what you purchased in this case

I'm not really trying to prove anything. In the thread I posted above, people asked for pictures. I am now supplying pictures so that people can see for themselves. Understandably I am defensive when people are telling me "you should know it's the worst %&$# out there because of the price" or whatever. Fact is, my take from the statements the distributor/manufacturer made is that it would be a good quality product that would hold it's own against comparable non-CS films. With highly noticeable color change in a matter of a few months, and 100% complete color change to something off the charts in a year's time, I don't feel that was at all to be expected. Like I stated before, I knew it wasn't a CS film going in to it, I just didn't realize the timeline was measured in days and double digit days to be more descriptive. I read many posts from Scotty and the like praising this film, how well it's held up and how great it is to work with. I think it's only fair that I share my side of the story and let people making those very important decisions regarding their livelihood see both sides of the coin. Fact of the matter remains, I am embarrassed to see a vehicle I tinted look that bad in that short of a time period. I'm not arguing, I'm not comparing it to a film I now sell that costs me 2x what TB costs, I am just stating that I would have never wasted my money on a product that looked that bad in that short amount of time.

There is even more to the story. When I first saw this car earlier in the day I was dropping a car off at the same Mazda dealer. It pulled in rolling a donut and I thought to myself, "Wow, that car looks terrible, who would put bronze on a black car?". I was even going to talk to the lady and tell her we can make that car look 100x better and we were having a small sale this month. It was later in the day that they showed up and I was thinking to myself "Hey, it's that car with the horrible tint, maybe they know it looks bad too". Then they came in asking if we could match it, then we got on to the subject that they had it tinted through the dealer, etc, etc. I really wish I could go back in time and not have purchased that film.