Reasonable defects following paint protection film installation?

tango2 · January 13, 2016

Tango may I ask where you are located? Are you the shop owner or an installer or both?

Shop owner I am 61 and have acute arthritis so don't personally pick up a squeegee anymore but my team hits these standards every day whether those struggling to accept my point believe it or not

14 years of this teaches you what can be done rather than what folk believe.

And to address another posters point this is not about boasting or chest beating this is about our refusal to believe that compromises in install is a necessary part of what we all do

I hear that used every day as an excuse to not up the game

As I said higher standards mean high revenue and higher repeat business.

Film improves every year there is no reason why we cannot do the same at the coal face.

tango2 · January 13, 2016

This my be my first post on here as I try to steer clear of forums for just this reason, but how can you put up photos of someone's work to emphasize you're point or 'out' someone when you base your argument on 'possible' flaws from a photograph. I'm afraid you render your entire post pointless. Factless conjecture is what is wrong with forums these days. You may well be very educated in this field but I'm afraid you are not showing it.

My point of posting the photo was to show a possible defect and see if there was any possible explanation given to what it is since it does not look to be paint related. Nobody is going to his shop to watch the work for a week to point anything out, so a photo is all we got. Since I stated it is very hard to find a flaw on photos, an explanation of those marks should be easy to explain since it is so blatant. There was no explanation given just a defense which proves my point to me. Flawless don't happen period, not 100% of everyday. I won't post anymore responses since I am satisfied and there no point arguing with someone that claims flawless installs.

Still struggling Eh? Blatant lol there is nothing there save your febrile imaginings you want there to be something so you are determined to see something that doesn't exist from a low res photo off a phone

Heh if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy knock yourself out

tango2 · January 13, 2016

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'm down for the drama.

Good posts Supreme and Bham.

To Tango...

You don't do flawless installations, definition just incase you need it...without any blemishes or imperfections; perfect.

This means there is not 1 single spec of dirt/dust/lint under not 1 PPF job you or any other installer you have ever done...really?

Stop having other people create accounts just to help back you...just suspicious that Slippedup joined today, only applied to this post, and also located in the UK.

Just sayin...this is now my last post along with not reading any responses.

Typical cut and run after trying to make a case by throwing a photo out there that you misinterpret to make your case

I have learned that lighting high spots on a low res image can create any manner of optical effects and they don't prove anything

Zoomed in Hi res is a different story

All you found was a photographic artefact but are so determined to try and prove me wrong you had to pull something out of your ass

The reality is what it is whether anyone agrees or not we will continue hitting these standards and you can carry on assuming it's all fine and talking down customers expectations let's see how many of us are still here in another 10 years

tango2 · January 13, 2016

I used to think a perfect install was out of reach...too many variables that would effect the install I had (I thought)no control over. One by one, I began taking these out of the mix and results improved. One of the last problems had been bits of debris under the film. Last year I got the floor of my shop resurfaced and that pretty much took care of that issue. Now I was down to just those little triangles you get sometimes where you had fingers that had to be worked down. I used to think that was an acceptable flaw, I mean come on...you had to have your face laying a certain way on the hood in a certain light to see it so that's acceptable right? Once you think something is acceptable, you stop trying to solve that issue because you don't see it as a problem anymore.

That not only applies to the installers, but to the kit designers as well. A well designed pattern will install perfectly without distorting the adhesive, if you don't fight the film, it doesn't fight back. That fact became clear a few months ago when we began installing some of the same patterns Tango2 uses. If he says that his installs are coming out perfect, he may well be right because ours have stepped up a noticeable notch. Now there's no way I'm going to say any of my installs are perfect, but the ones we have been putting out lately have been close enough that I stopped looking.

Quite So David

Thank you for that

The less you have to fight the film the better job you can do and the better the result will be

It's what I was aiming at when I said earlier any installer is capable of this its just accepting it's possible and starting from the right places

Designs film choice and self belief:)

Cheers

Slippedup · January 13, 2016

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'm down for the drama.

Good posts Supreme and Bham.

To Tango...

You don't do flawless installations, definition just incase you need it...without any blemishes or imperfections; perfect.

This means there is not 1 single spec of dirt/dust/lint under not 1 PPF job you or any other installer you have ever done...really?

Stop having other people create accounts just to help back you...just suspicious that Slippedup joined today, only applied to this post, and also located in the UK.

Just sayin...this is now my last post along with not reading any responses.

Just thought I would add my account was not created to back up Tango2 on this discussion. I created this account to offer advice to people who may not benefit from the experience I have in this industry.

I have been an installer/designer/trainer in the ppf industry for many many years now. I will quite often read forums to see how installers are doing, to look for any specific problems people may be having to relate to my own workshop.

To me every day is a school day, you can learn as much as you teach. The minute you don't recognise that you may as well pack up and go home. I came on this thread because I don't like to see anyones work dragged through the mud without good reason. Im afraid your point was not strong enough to substantiate posting those pictures. Had the pictures shown clear defects then fair enough, it would have been a low move but fair enough. Let me be clear I would have backed you up had someone been doing the same to you. We have enough to deal with in this industry without taking digs at each other. Lets keep the punches above the belt ;)

Lock · January 13, 2016

Perfection is something we should all strive for. No matter what skill level you are, it gives us something to work towards, yet isn't completely attainable.

I believe if you're not progressing, you're regressing. So if perfection were attainable then there's no way my previous statement could be true. Perfection means no more progression which means you're regressing.

As was mentioned before, perfection is in the eye of the beholder. One persons flawless job might be someone else's sub par job. No doubt many of you do exceptional work, but to claim perfection 100% of the time makes me believe there are some extremely major egos or perhaps just poor eyesight. :thumb2

Toronto Guy · January 16, 2016

I've been doing this since 2003 myself, and now my forte is full fronts. I agree with the idea that the perfect install does not exist. When you are your own worst critic, you should be able to find fault in everything you do.

That said, I believe it takes a true professional not to cut up the work of others. Criticism can be delivered in a positive way (eg. "This area of concern appears to be caused by their approach to that shape", or "The tension appears to have been too high for this kind of film.", but listening to some posts, it sounds like a lot of people in this industry would rather have a pissing contest than see things from an objective standpoint.

PPFdistributing · January 18, 2016

I've been doing this since 2003 myself, and now my forte is full fronts. I agree with the idea that the perfect install does not exist. When you are your own worst critic, you should be able to find fault in everything you do.

That said, I believe it takes a true professional not to cut up the work of others. Criticism can be delivered in a positive way (eg. "This area of concern appears to be caused by their approach to that shape", or "The tension appears to have been too high for this kind of film.", but listening to some posts, it sounds like a lot of people in this industry would rather have a pissing contest than see things from an objective standpoint.

:yeah